STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
In the vice presidential debate last night, the candidates were outwardly polite while critiquing the people at the top of the ticket.
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JD VANCE: It is a disgrace, Tim. And I actually think - I agree with you. I think you want to solve this problem, but I don't think that Kamala Harris does.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator, your time is up.
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TIM WALZ: I agree with a lot of what Senator Vance said about what's happening. His running mate, though, does not. And that's the problem.
NORAH O'DONNELL: Governor, your time is up. Senator, let me ask you about that.
INSKEEP: So they threw a few elbows at people not in the room. Let's discuss this with Republican Ron Bonjean of ROKK Solutions. He's a consultant - as is Democrat Antjuan Seawright of Blueprint Strategy. Your - there's your party right in the name - Blueprint. Antjuan, good morning to you. And, Ron, good morning to you.
ANTJUAN SEAWRIGHT: Good morning.
RON BONJEAN: Good morning.
INSKEEP: Mr. Bonjean, let's begin with you. What did you learn?
BONJEAN: Well, listen, I think this was a vice-presidential debate that I'm sure Republicans would have much rather have had at the presidential level. I think Vance did edge out Walz and came off as more polished and reasonable by focusing the message on what the few 2- to 3% of independent voters wanted to hear, which is how a Trump administration would solve their kitchen-table problems. And he didn't sound like he was at a MAGA rally. This was definitely Midwest nice and policy heavy.
INSKEEP: Antjuan, what do you think?
SEAWRIGHT: Oh, I think it was certainly heavy on the policy, and I think Governor Walz did a heck of a job of defending and protecting, as well as casting - defending, obviously, parts of the vice president and his own record that people have questions about as they both continue to introduce themselves at the top of Democratic ticket; protecting the interests of everyday Americans and staying focused on the issues; but casting, if you will, casting the vice president's vision for this country, if given the opportunity, or when given the opportunity, to serve as president and vice president of the United States. But the most important thing I think Governor Walz did last night was not make a mistake that would cost the vice president headache and harm in the days and weeks to come.
INSKEEP: Oh, you mean the current vice president, is what you're saying - didn't cause her too many troubles.
SEAWRIGHT: That's exactly what I'm saying. Vice President Harris.
INSKEEP: Let's talk about some of the criticism of the people at the top of the ticket that we heard last night. JD Vance repeatedly focused on a particular line of attack. Let's listen to one instance of that.
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VANCE: Kamala Harris is not running as a newcomer to politics. She is the sitting vice president. If she wants to enact all of these policies to make housing more affordable, I invite her to use the office that the American people already gave her, not sit around and campaign and do nothing while Americans find the American dream of homeownership completely unaffordable.
INSKEEP: Antjuan, this is a vulnerability. People want change in this election. Harris is casting herself as change, but she is part of the administration.
SEAWRIGHT: Well, people also know that we came through a once-in-a-century global pandemic where the United States landed softer than anyone else. And because of that, we've made strong safety deposits or security deposits - in some places, they call it down payments - on progress in this country, but there's more work to do. And so the next four years for a Harris-Walz administration would be improving the micro of everyday Americans and building on the micro - the macro progress that we've seen from the Biden-Harris administration. And homeownership, affordable housing is included in that.
INSKEEP: Macro and micro, you're saying. So the macro picture is good, but the micro picture for individuals not so good. I want to ask now about something that Walz said and ask Ron Bonjean about that. He sought to reinforce voters' concerns less about JD Vance than about the guy at the top of the ticket - Donald Trump. Let's listen to some of that.
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WALZ: What I'm concerned about is - where is the firewall with Donald Trump? Where is a firewall if he knows he could do anything, including taking an election, and his vice president's not going to stand to it? That's what we're asking you, America.
INSKEEP: Ron Bonjean, let's ask about that line of attack. JD Vance last evening could not admit the reality that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election, couldn't even admit the reality that Donald Trump has denied losing the 2020 election, couldn't admit to other realities like climate change because the guy at the top of the ticket doesn't let him. What is the answer to that?
BONJEAN: Yeah. No, I think that the question of democracy and those issues came at the end of the debate, and I thought that Walz did a pretty decent job at that. You know, unfortunately, because it was at the end, I don't know how many people left were watching. But it's very difficult if you're a Trump vice presidential running mate to go against what Trump has said previously about the 2020 election. He was forced to do verbal jujitsu and come up with some type of answer, which I thought was coherent, but I don't think it flies with people that have been following this and understand what January 6 was all about. I did think that Vance did constantly land punches against the Kamala Harris administration during the debate that left the impression that Walz was unprepared.
INSKEEP: I'm interested finally in the question of tone. Vance has a very negative approval rating. People have a very negative idea of him. They seem to mainly know him through memes. Did he do himself any favors by looking at the camera and speaking in the way that he did?
BONJEAN: I thought he did a fantastic job. He introduced himself right away to the American people, something that Walz failed to do and - tell - he answered it, the Tiananmen Square question. I thought that he seemed down to earth and somebody that people could relate to. While Walz looked physically uncomfortable on the split screen. He is Minnesota nice, but I thought that Vance did a much better job and did himself a great service at the debate.
INSKEEP: Antjuan, let me ask about that. Walz has admitted that he's not a great debater, and it did not seem to be his very best format.
SEAWRIGHT: Well, I disagree with that. I think he did a great job of, again, not making a mistake that will cost the campaign in the days and weeks to come. If you're looking for a style, then sure, Vance scored some style points. If you're looking for substance, then I think Walz did a great job. I think JD Vance consistently gave us intellectual dishonesty throughout the debate, very similar to his running mate, Donald Trump. And for some people, that's enough. But unfortunately, for many Americans, that did not work for four years of Donald Trump, and I think Walz focused on policy, not personality, and that is what always moves the needle in this country when we focus our attention on policy for everyday Americans.
INSKEEP: Let me invite each of you to take about 15 seconds here. It's a tough question in a way, but how are you thinking about the final month of the race now? And let's - Ron Bonjean, you can go first.
BONJEAN: Well, it seems that anything can happen right now. I mean, we've just seen in the last day 180 missiles being fired at Israel. We've seen a lot of breaking news. We saw a national disaster, mostly focusing in North Carolina. Really, I think we're in for a roller coaster ride, and it's going to be a very close election either way.
INSKEEP: Antjuan, the final word.
SEAWRIGHT: Well, there will be this poller coaster that many Americans will follow.
INSKEEP: Poller coaster (laughter).
SEAWRIGHT: But I think for the Walz campaign, it's focus on the focus, prioritize the priorities. And I think it's continue this effort of a high-tech and a high-touch campaign talking to everyday Americans.
INSKEEP: Antjuan Seawright and Ron Bonjean, pleasure talking with you gentlemen.
SEAWRIGHT: Thank you.
BONJEAN: Thanks very much.
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