JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Today more than a dozen states announced lawsuits against TikTok. So too did Washington, D.C., attorney General Brian Schwalb. The D.C. lawsuit alleges that the social media platform causes mental and physical harms to children and operates an illegal virtual economy. These allegations against the social media giant come on the heels of the majority of states and the district filing similar suits against Meta, the parent company of Facebook and Instagram. D.C. Attorney General Brian Schwalb is in the studio with me to talk more about this new lawsuit against TikTok. Welcome.
BRIAN SCHWALB: Thank you, Juana, for having me - glad to be here.
SUMMERS: So, I mean, I think in many people's minds, all of these social media platforms - they feel kind of similar. You and your fellow attorneys general filed suit against Meta about a year ago, and those suits focus on how the apps are built, just like this one does - this idea that the algorithms are intentionally designed to addict people. Can you just talk a little bit about that approach?
SCHWALB: Sure. The lawsuit that we filed, along with a bipartisan group of attorneys general, really focuses on three things. We allege that the TikTok platform is addictive. It's exploiting young people for profit, and it's deceptive in the way it represents its safety features to the public. We know that the algorithm that TikTok relies upon is designed to be addictive. It's like digital nicotine. It's trying to make sure that young people keep their eyes on their screen for as long as possible because the more young people have their eyes on the screen, the more ad revenue that these platforms can generate.
Worse than the intentional addiction of young people into a situation is that it's dangerous for them. We know about the terrible adverse impacts on mental health, particularly for young people, teenagers and teenage girls in particular. So we have a product that is intentionally addictive, that's dangerous, that's being peddled for profit to young people, and that's what all of the AG lawsuits are trying to stop.
SUMMERS: I want to just tick back through the four claims that the lawsuit makes against the platform. It's addictive, psychologically damaging, deceptive, profiting from the exploitation of young users. You're the attorney general of D.C., but you're also a parent. Which one of those concerns you most?
SCHWALB: Look. As the father of three daughters, I'm most concerned about the long-term adverse impacts on mental health for young people. We know residents of the district, children in the district complain about the fact that they would like to spend less time on their phones. This is addiction by definition - when you want to stop doing something but you can't - and particularly for teenage girls, when we're leading to increases in suicidal ideation, in body dysmorphia and people comparing themselves to one another. We know that record number of young people report feeling perpetually sad and hopeless. So these are the types of things that the lawsuit aims to change in terms of behavior, making all children and particularly District of Columbia residents safer.
SUMMERS: Now, we know that TikTok does have a number of features that are intended to help parents and families limit their teens' time using this app. So why is this the app's problem if those safeguards exist?
SCHWALB: Well, part of it is that TikTok has misled the public and misled parents about how much control they can actually have over the safety features.
SUMMERS: Tell us how.
SCHWALB: Well, we know that once children are watching the platforms and engaging with the platforms through the infinite scroll feature, that any promise of safety feature is illusory. We also know that parents are not getting full, complete, candid information about the way the platforms operate. Now, we can remember a time - I can remember a time where parents would modulate the TV time in the family room. They could watch and see how much time their young kids are paying attention to a TV. It's very, very difficult for parents when the platform is an iPhone that young kids can have in their bedrooms or with their friends - makes it very difficult for parents to keep an eye, and we want parents to be able to parent.
SUMMERS: I imagine there are a lot of people who are parents or caregivers of kids who are listening to the conversation that you and I are having, or even kids who are in the car being driven home by Mom and Dad. What do you think is the most important thing for families to know about the action that you and your fellow attorneys general are taking here against TikTok?
SCHWALB: Well, we want people to know that when their eyes are glued to the screen, it's to generate more money for the platform that's peddling this type of addictive product. And so you are being part of an exploitive process to begin with when your time is spent glued to your screen rather than doing the other things that young people we hope will do while they're growing up, like sleeping. We know that the majority of young people in the District of Columbia aren't getting eight hours of sleep.
When they're in school, we hope they're going to be paying attention to their teachers and their friends and engaging - not with their eyes on the screen. So I hope parents and families are talking about this issue, talking about how they can use their time in a healthy, productive way and realize that too much time on the screen is causing potentially long-term impact to their emotional and social development.
SUMMERS: D.C. Attorney General Brian Schwalb. Thanks for stopping by.
SCHWALB: Thanks for having me.
SUMMERS: In a statement received after taping this interview, a TikTok spokesperson expressed disappointment that the attorneys general filed lawsuits and told NPR, quote, "we strongly disagree with these claims, many of which we believe to be inaccurate and misleading." Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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