SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
It really feels like women have conquered pop music lately.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "RUN THE WORLD (GIRLS)")
BEYONCE: (Singing) Girls. Who run the world? Girls, girls. Who run the world? Girls.
DETROW: Global newsmakers like Taylor Swift and Beyonce produce record-setting tours. Mary J. Blige, Cher and Big Mama Thornton are about to be inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame. And when Grammy nominations are announced next month, it is expected that women will again dominate the field. Perfect time for a new book called "How Women Made Music: A Revolutionary History." It's out now and it was made by our friends at NPR Music. Joined now by Ann Powers, NPR's music critic and correspondent Hey, Ann.
ANN POWERS, BYLINE: Hey. Thanks for having me.
DETROW: What good timing.
POWERS: Yeah.
DETROW: I mean, takes a while to write a book, to come up with a concept, and yet it is coming out at this moment where it really feels like women are totally dominating this world.
POWERS: And it's such a great moment to celebrate and to celebrate the history of women in popular music. But I think the important thing to say is that, you know, the beauty and achievement of women throughout popular music history has always been marked by struggle, you know? Like, the three women you mentioned who are getting into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame this year, each one of them was marginalized or trivialized or even forgotten - for example, Big Mama Thornton. And one of the first essays in the book is about how she and her version of the song "Hound Dog" really laid the foundation for rock 'n' roll.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HOUND DOG")
BIG MAMA THORNTON: (Singing) You ain't nothing but a hound dog, been snooping around my door.
POWERS: So the project that laid the foundation for this book was a multiplatform, yearslong series we did at NPR Music called Turning The Tables, was designed to ask the question what happens to the history of popular music when only women are considered, centering these figures, again, bringing them really, really back into the mainstream of the conversation? And the book adds their own voices using material from the NPR archive.
DETROW: What all did you learn from digging into all of these archives?
POWERS: Well, Alison Fensterstock was the editor of the book. And she did an amazing job of finding interviews that really sort of echo forward toward what's happening in the present, because right now, it might seem like, you know, the wave is hitting the shore. There's so much momentum. Chappell Roan is filling football fields all over the country and all over the world.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "FEMININOMENON")
CHAPPELL ROAN: (Singing) It's a femininomenon. So let's say it's working out.
POWERS: Yet, what we found is that in the 50 years of interviews that we could find, there were always women kind of, you know, seeking change and working for equity in popular music. And maybe they didn't call it that in the moment. But, like, they were doing that work, you know? They were making their music. For example, Loretta Lynn told Melissa Block on this very show in 2004 about how she centered women's stories with her song "The Pill" from 1975.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE PILL")
LORETTA LYNN: (Singing) I'm tearing down your brooder house because now I've got the pill.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
LYNN: Like I said, I've shocked a lot of people about the things that I've recorded, like "The Pill" and different things. But I went to radio stations and I'd say, hey, is there any women in here? And they said yeah. I said, I'd bet you five bucks they're on the pill, too (laughter). I was the only one who didn't take the pill, and I didn't have to have it. My old man took care of that a long time ago.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE PILL")
LYNN: (Singing) You've set this chicken your last time because now I've got the pill.
POWERS: (Laughter) I mean, that subversiveness in that quote and that insistence on putting women's stories first, that reminds me of what Chappell Roan is doing now with gender and sexuality and queerness...
DETROW: Yeah.
POWERS: ...In 2024.
DETROW: A lot of this book is about women, artists telling stories about women's lives. But I'm curious, what do you think is the most important way that women have moved popular music forward?
POWERS: Well, honestly, of course, I believe in telling stories. I'm a writer. I work for NPR, (laughter) you know? But to me, real equity is achieved through two things. One, seizing the means of production.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "RATTLESNAKE")
ST VINCENT: (Singing) Running, running, running, rattle behind me.
POWERS: Like, actually becoming great guitarists and rappers, producers, drummers. And then the second thing is just increasing the number of women in the room, in every room, in every aspect of the music industry and music making. So a lot of the essays in this book explore these themes. For example, there's one by Sasha Geffen about Annie Clark, who goes by St. Vincent, as a different kind of guitar hero who, like, creates a different relationship with the guitar in her songs.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "RATTLESNAKE")
ST VINCENT: (Singing) No one will ever find me.
POWERS: And one of the best and most popular essays in the book is by Talia Schlanger, and it's about Meg White, the drummer from the White Stripes who was really denigrated often. And people thought she couldn't play and she's just letting Jack White push her around. But Talia writes about her as an introvert, and really as the greatest introvert in rock 'n' roll. These women change things by doing, you know, by making music that's revolutionary, rather than just talking about it.
DETROW: And on that note, the book, "How Women Made Music," is out now. Ann Powers is NPR's music critic and the founder of the series Turning The Tables. Ann, it was really great to talk to you.
POWERS: Very fun. Thank you so much.
(SOUNDBITE OF THE WHITE STRIPES SONG, "SEVEN NATION ARMY") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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