SAM BRIGER, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Sam Briger. If you like to distract yourself from real-world crises with the fictional kind, then you can now watch Season 2 of the Netflix series "The Diplomat." Keri Russell stars as Kate Wyler, a career foreign service officer with an excellent reputation for handling international crises, often behind the scenes. Her husband, Hal, played by Rufus Sewell, is also a diplomat and former ambassador.
Let's hear a clip from the current season. But first, a little exposition. Last season, Kate Wyler and her British counterparts had been investigating the terrorist attack of a British aircraft carrier. She had been told that a Russian mercenary named Lenkov was behind the attack but that it was secretly planned by someone within the British government, and she suspects the prime minister. Last season ended with a cliff-hanger. A car bomb went off, severely injuring Kate's husband, her deputy, Stuart, and another staff member named Ronnie. In this scene, Kate meets the embassy's lead CIA agent, Eidra Park, at the hospital and fills her in on the investigation. Park is played by Ali Ahn.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE DIPLOMAT")
KERI RUSSELL: (As Kate Wyler) Lenkov put together the attack on the carrier, but the Kremlin did not hire him; I think the prime minister did...
ALI AHN: (As Eidra Park) Whoa.
RUSSELL: (As Kate Wyler)...Of this country.
AHN: (As Eidra Park) Slow down.
RUSSELL: (As Kate Wyler) They are British police. This is a British hospital. Our people are not safe here.
AHN: (As Eidra Park) Kate, you think the British prime minister...
RUSSELL: (As Kate Wyler) Ordered a strike on his own warship, which may or may not be connected to the bomb that just went off in his own city.
AHN: (As Eidra Park) You think he ordered that, too?
RUSSELL: (As Kate Wyler) I think the call is coming from inside the house. And three Americans, including my husband, just got blown up inside the house.
BRIGER: Keri Russell has played two iconic roles on television - the lead on the show "Felicity" as a young college woman in New York and Elizabeth Jennings, a Soviet spy in the '80s living undercover in the United States in the critically acclaimed show "The Americans." She received three Emmy nominations for that role. She got her start on television as a teenager on "The All New Mickey Mouse Club" with a cast that included Britney Spears, Ryan Gosling, Christina Aguilera and Justin Timberlake. I spoke with Keri Russell in 2023 when "The Diplomat" premiered.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
BRIGER: Keri Russell, welcome to FRESH AIR.
RUSSELL: Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here.
BRIGER: Well, it's great to have you here. I just wanted to ask you first how you were pitched the show "The Diplomat" and the character Kate Wyler.
RUSSELL: Debora Cahn, who wrote it, sent me the script. It came through the normal channels. It was actually - it was the holidays. It was Christmastime. And it just so happened that I had three sets of grandparents downstairs in my house.
BRIGER: Yeah.
RUSSELL: And I was cooking for them all. It was chaotic and fun and amazing. And, you know, I was clearly not shopping around for a new television show to join.
BRIGER: Right.
RUSSELL: I read this, and I just - it has this combination of - or Debora's writing does, I suppose - of this political fun intrigue and almost in the world of kind of war journalism and those kind of stories that interest me and this world of civil servants and the State Department and the people who do those jobs that, you know, we just don't know that much about. And Debora, she writes about the minutia of life, you know? So it's someone going to meet the president, but then realizing there's yogurt on my pants. And you're like, I got to get this - like, how am I going to get this off, you know? And it's just great writing, and I couldn't say no.
BRIGER: So, the show's creators called your character itchy. What does that mean to you?
RUSSELL: (Laughter) That's very funny. She's a very good organizer, and she's very good at getting all the facts right and getting people where they need to be behind the scenes. And then I think if you ask her to wear something other than her one black suit that she really feels good in and smart in and tough in, and you ask her to wear a dress, it's going to show her sweat and she's itchy, and she doesn't like when people look at her. So that's really fun.
BRIGER: Yeah, she's much more comfortable behind the scenes, right?
RUSSELL: That's what this show is sort of about - you know, plucking her from the background as, like, No. 2 and bringing her to the front in a very visible post, which London would be for an ambassador.
BRIGER: So as you said earlier, the job of the American ambassador to the U.K. has a lot of ceremonial aspects to it. And, you know, you said that the job is often a reward to, like, a big political donor or bundler. And, like, Kate's supposed to attend all these parties and teas. She's supposed to wear dresses and do photo shoots. And she really bristles against that. Like, she just wants to do the diplomacy. And I was just wondering if that's something that you relate to as an actor. Like, do you enjoy movie openings and galas, or would you just prefer to do the work?
RUSSELL: Going to an award show is such a fun idea.
(LAUGHTER)
RUSSELL: Going is zero fun. It's so fun to think about wearing a fancy dress. It is so fun. Everything is so pretty. Oh, my gosh, and the colors and getting your hair and makeup done and imagining that you'll look so much better than you really do...
BRIGER: (Laughter).
RUSSELL: ...When you do school drop-off. But the truth and the reality of getting your hair and makeup done, it - you still look sort of weird. You're instantly starting to sweat, putting on a dress, going, oh, this doesn't look the way I thought it would. Oh, wow, standing in front of hundreds of photographers while they take your picture, and you're like, oh, my God. I'm doing the wrong face. I'm not standing right. Oh, they're going to see my sweat. Can they see through this dress? Can they see my nipples?
BRIGER: (Laughter).
RUSSELL: Like, what - you know, it's all - that is never fun. Like, all you want to do is do, like, five minutes of one of those things and then go, leave and get a burger and have a beer. But that's not what you get to do. It's, like, an eight-hour ordeal. So, yes, I fully - when I read that, I was like, oh, yeah, I know what that is. I mean, just - you're just in a tailspin of uncomfort (ph).
BRIGER: (Laughter) Right. Well, let's just take a short break here. Let's talk about your last TV show "The Americans." The show ran for six seasons on FX. It ended in 2018. It was critically acclaimed. The show won two Peabodys. And you were highly praised for your performance, and you were nominated for three Emmys. So for people who don't know the show - I guess there are some people out there - the show takes place in the '80s during the Reagan administration. And you play Elizabeth Jennings, a Soviet spy posing as an American. You're in a KGB-arranged marriage to another spy played by Matthew Rhys. ***
BRIGER: * And when the show starts, you've been living in the United States for 15 years. You have two American-born kids, which was initially just, like, part of your disguise. And you've thought of your relationship to your husband as more of a work relationship rather than a romantic one. Although, at this point, you're starting to have real feelings for him. So could you just tell us how this role came to you?
RUSSELL: You know, it's funny. John Landgraf, who runs FX, really advocated for me to do this part. And I kept - I read it. And I was like, why in the world would they want me to play this cold, calculating spy - Russian spy? Because literally, when I was reading it, I was thinking of, like - you know in "Rocky," like, when he has to fight the Russian fighter and he has that amazing Russian wife. I think it's Brigitte Nielsen or something, right?
BRIGER: Yeah, it is.
RUSSELL: Am I making that up?
BRIGER: No, that's right.
RUSSELL: That's who I was picturing.
BRIGER: (Laughter) Yeah.
RUSSELL: I am frazzled and nervous and, like, girl-next-door. I was like, what? Why does he want me? But that was sort of the genius of him, is realizing that you need somebody who does look sort of ordinary and that people have this sort of whatever feeling for, so that I could be this crazy killer (laughter) and, you know, sneaky spy.
BRIGER: Well, I'd like to play a scene from the show. This is from Season 3. So your daughter, Paige, is a teenager at this point. And, well, I guess she was a teenager all along, but she's getting a little older. And your handlers, the KGB, want to recruit her for the cause. And Philip is strongly against this. Like, he wants Paige to have a normal American life. Your character, Elizabeth, is more resigned to the idea. And this is a real rift in the marriage at this point. But Paige has been suspicious of your behavior for a while. And in this scene, she confronts you both. And you decide to tell her the truth. And Paige here is played by Holly Taylor.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE AMERICANS")
RUSSELL: (As Elizabeth Jennings) Paige, your father and I - we...
MATTHEW RHYS: (As Philip Jennings) We were born in a different country.
HOLLY TAYLOR: (As Paige Jennings) What? Where?
RUSSELL: (As Elizabeth Jennings) The Soviet Union.
RHYS: (As Philip Jennings) We came here before you were born.
TAYLOR: (As Paige Jennings) I don't understand.
RUSSELL: (As Elizabeth Jennings) We're here to help our people. Most of what you hear about the Soviet Union isn't true. Everything that we've told you about being activists, about wanting to make the world a better place...
TAYLOR: (As Paige Jennings) So you're...
RHYS: (As Philip Jennings) We work for our country, getting information, information that they couldn't get in other ways.
TAYLOR: (As Paige Jennings) You're spies?
RUSSELL: (As Elizabeth Jennings) We serve our country. But we also serve the cause of peace around the world. We fight for people who can't fight for themselves.
RHYS: (As Paige Jennings) Stop.
RUSSELL: (As Elizabeth Jennings) Paige, we wanted to tell you this for such a long time.
TAYLOR: (As Paige Jennings) But you didn't.
RHYS: (As Philip Jennings) No. No, you're right. We didn't.
BRIGER: So that's a scene from "The Americans." Like, that's a real turning point in the show. And it's ironic, you know? You finally telling your daughter the truth about their lives, like, just lays bare all the dishonesty that they've been living with and, like, that they're...
RUSSELL: Yeah.
BRIGER: The family is, like, based on a foundation of lies.
RUSSELL: It's - you know, Joe and Joel, the writers of the show, they at one point had spoken to, like, a psychologist about children and how this might affect them. And one of the things I thought was so interesting was they were saying one of the things that traumatizes a child more than anything is a huge lie because you - they can't even trust their own memories, because they go back and they're like, but none of that was real because you weren't doing that. So I have all these memories that you were working at a travel agency or whatever we were doing and, you know, that's not even real anymore - and how damaging that is..
BRIGER: Well, it's interesting 'cause, like, parents, like, whether they're Soviet spies or not, like...
RUSSELL: (Laughter).
BRIGER: They conceal things from your kids...
RUSSELL: Of course.
BRIGER: ...Like, all the time, like, for all sorts of reasons, like to maintain their innocence, like, to simplify things and just to keep the parents' lives private. And, you know, that even continues as the kids age. One of the things I found really fascinating with your relationship with Paige is that, like, even when Elizabeth reveals that she's a spy, like, she still can't tell Paige about all the stuff she does, like all the honey traps and the murders.
RUSSELL: (Laughter) Yeah. Yeah.
BRIGER: Like, because she doesn't want Paige to think she's a monster.
RUSSELL: No. I know. It's so - it's such a great idea for a show because you have these people, these children, looking up to you. And they're judging you. And it's such an interesting - it's not just, you know, one spy telling the story in a movie. You're living with them. And you're living with their choices and feeling all these other little satellite parts of their lives. And that's what's so fun about this era of TV that - who knows? - maybe we're moving out of now.
BRIGER: Watching the show last week, I was just thinking about how much fun it must have been for an actor because there's so much acting in it. Like, first, you're acting as a Russian spy who's pretending to be an all-American mom. And then you have all these side missions where you're disguised as other characters. You're seducing people. You're killing people. Like, it just must have been really fun to go in and have all this stuff to work with.
RUSSELL: It was so fun. I mean, it's an actor's dream. First of all, there's this incredible cheat of - and I feel like since "The Americans," now there's a lot of things I feel like these days where people get all wigged up and do things. But...
BRIGER: Yeah. Yeah, you wear a lot of wigs. You probably wear, like, a hundred wigs during this - the show.
RUSSELL: (Laughter) So many wigs - and stupid mustaches and things. But, you know, it's this incredible shorthand cheat to feeling like someone else, getting to wear that wig or crazy makeup. You know, I did this job with Gary Oldman. Gary said, you know, I've been watching it, and I call David Bowie, and we FaceTime afterwards, and we talk about the show. I was like, oh, my gosh. It's so crazy.
BRIGER: That'd be a good podcast.
RUSSELL: It's so cool. Totally. So anyway, he said, you know, that one episode where you're wearing this one wig - I think it was this - it was early on. I'm wearing some super-short, crazy wig, and they kind of gave me weird skin. And he said, you know, people don't understand that when you do that, it helps you so much. Like, you look like a completely different person. I said, I know. It's true. And it was really - it's such a fun cheat to seeing yourself as this other person.
BRIGER: I just was reminded of - did you ever see that Bugs Bunny cartoon where it's - I think it's Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd.
RUSSELL: Yes.
BRIGER: And this wig van has a crash, and all the wigs float in the air, and then the wigs keep landing on their heads, and they change characters.
RUSSELL: (Laughter) No. But that's like exactly our show.
BRIGER: That's kind of like "The Americans," yeah.
RUSSELL: It was so stupid and so fun. You know, we'd be like midnight, and Matthew would come in to the trailer (laughter) with some crazy mustache, and we would just laugh our heads off. It was so fun.
BRIGER: If you're just joining us, we're speaking with actor Keri Russell. She's best known for her lead roles on the TV shows "The Americans" and "Felicity." Season 2 of her show "The Diplomat" is currently streaming on Netflix. This is FRESH AIR.
This is FRESH AIR. We're speaking with the actor Keri Russell. She's starring in the Netflix show "The Diplomat" as Kate Wyler, a career foreign service officer thrust into the role of the American ambassador to the U.K. Season 2 is now streaming on Netflix.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
BRIGER: So, Keri, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about your childhood and how you got your start in acting when you were cast on "The All New Mickey Mouse Club." And this was in the early '90s. I think you were on the show for three years. Is that right?
RUSSELL: Yes, that makes sense. Yeah, I think so.
BRIGER: Starting...
RUSSELL: It was a long time ago.
BRIGER: Yeah, yeah.
RUSSELL: But, yes (laughter).
BRIGER: Started when you were, like, 15. And the show's famous as the launching pad for a lot of talented young actors and musicians - including yourself, Ryan Gosling, Justin Timberlake, Christina Aguilera and Britney Spears. So there was a big casting call in Colorado. And so you decide to try out. And at this point, it doesn't sound like you've done a lot of acting. Did you know what you were getting into, and, like, was one of your ambitions to be on television at that point in your life?
RUSSELL: I had no idea what I was getting into. I did not grow up wanting to be an actor at all. And I did show up with hundreds of kids and all my little dance pals. And, yeah, you wait in line for - I'm not kidding - hours at some stupid Denver convention center. And, you know, you get in finally, and he says, hey, you know, what do you have prepared? Can you read this little script about a mermaid trying to recycle?
BRIGER: (Laughter).
RUSSELL: Or something like that. And, sure, yeah, I'll read the words. And then do a little dance, because that's what I had prepared. Like, one of my solos. And then he was, like, OK, well, what song do you want to sing? And I was, like, oh, no, I don't sing. And he said, little girl, do you see the line of kids waiting out there? Do you want to sing a song? And I said, I don't. I don't sing. And so they called me back, amazingly, anyway. And they had me sing some, like, little song. I think they had me sing "Happy Birthday." They want to make sure you can carry a tune, which I could probably - barely could, I'm sure.
BRIGER: Well, if people haven't seen the show, it was a variety show. And you did some singing, you did some dancing, and then there's, like, a lot of set pieces. So I wonder if you compare your upbringing to your kids' life. And if there was a casting for another "Mickey Mouse Club," like, would you let your kids audition? Like, you had a good time, but it was certainly a unique way to be a teenager.
RUSSELL: Listen, I had the best of all worlds. Normally, when a kid is acting, there's one child surrounded by adults. And not to mention the crew, which is huge. A crew to make an hour show - I mean, it's hundreds of people. So it's this kid, you know, working really long hours and needing to be professional and are surrounded by these adults. "The Mickey Mouse Club" - you know, I was one of 19 kids. The adults were invisible to me. I didn't even notice them. You know, it was just being in a small high school. I was just worried about, like, you know, who I was going to make out with probably - you know? - who I had a crush on. So it was a sweet, kind of innocent version of acting.
That being said, I just think putting any child in a professional setting like that is really tricky. And that's why so many people don't make it and have, you know, have complicated lives after. And as much as we did have fun - and we totally did - little kids - like, you're supposed to be able to mess up. You're supposed to, like, have a sick day or three or - you know, I don't regret anything, and I'm so grateful for my life. But I would never let my kids do it because kids are supposed to be kids if they can, you know? And if you want to do it, you can do it later.
BRIGER: Keri Russell recorded in 2023. Season 2 of her series "The Diplomat" is currently streaming on Netflix. We'll hear more of my interview after a break. And later, we remember writer Dorothy Allison, author of the critically acclaimed novel "Bastard Out Of Carolina." I'm Sam Briger, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF DAVE CLIFF'S "PURPLE GAZELLE")
BRIGER: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Sam Briger. We're listening to my 2023 interview with actor Keri Russell. She stars in the political drama of "The Diplomat," which is currently streaming Season 2 on Netflix. Russell plays Kate Wyler, a career diplomat tapped by the White House to serve as the U.S. ambassador to the U.K. Russell got her start on television as a teen on the "All New Mickey Mouse Club." She became famous as the lead on the TV show "Felicity" and received three Emmy nominations for her role in the series "The Americans" as a Soviet spy in the '80s living in the U.S. pretending to be an American.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
BRIGER: So, Keri, after your time at the "New Mickey Mouse Club," you decided to move to Hollywood and try to make it as an actor. You were on a few shows that didn't quite succeed. Like, there was an Aaron Spelling show. You were in a Bon Jovi video.
RUSSELL: (Laughter) Amazing.
BRIGER: I didn't quite follow the narrative of that video, but it seems like you're pretty bad news...
RUSSELL: I don't get it. Why (laughter)?
BRIGER: ...In it. And then you tried it out for the show "Felicity," which was your - you know, your really big break. And "Felicity" is about a girl who graduates from high school in California. She's planning to go to Stanford and - to pursue a medical degree. But she changes her plans because this boy, Ben Covington, who she's had a crush on but never really talked to, writes, like, a compelling note in her yearbook. And so she decides to bail on all her plans and follow him to New York. And he's going to the University of New York, which, I have to say, I always thought it was weird. Like, they can name Stanford Stanford, but it's - you can't have NYU.
RUSSELL: I know.
BRIGER: Like, that's kind of weird.
RUSSELL: I know.
BRIGER: But that's besides the point. Well, let's hear a scene from "Felicity." This is from the first episode where the very earnest and honest Felicity confronts her crush, Ben Covington, played by Scott Speedman, in a college stairway and reveals to him why she's in New York.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "FELICITY")
RUSSELL: (As Felicity Porter) I just want to preface this by saying that I don't want you to feel weird about anything I'm about to say at all.
SCOTT SPEEDMAN: (As Ben Covington) OK.
RUSSELL: (As Felicity Porter) The thing is I came to New York mostly because of you. (Laughter) Yeah, I had these sort of intense feelings for you back in high school and - even though I know that we never really talked before graduation except that one time when I was passing out fliers for the blood drive. Anyway, maybe the fact that we never did talk was why I had those feelings because now - of course, I realize now that it was a crazy thing to do to follow someone - I don't know - 3,000 miles. And I sort of panicked about it. But I just wanted you to know that I'm past that, and I'm totally OK with it now. I mean it - you know? - because it's not really about you so much anymore. I'm here now, you know, because I'm here.
(LAUGHTER)
RUSSELL: (As Felicity Porter) So what are you thinking?
SPEEDMAN: (As Ben Covington) I'm honestly - honestly, I'm just - I'm flattered by the whole thing. I'm flattered. I am.
RUSSELL: (As Felicity Porter) Good. Good. That's really a perfect answer.
SPEEDMAN: (As Ben Covington) OK.
RUSSELL: (As Felicity Porter) OK. So can we just be friends?
SPEEDMAN: (As Ben Covington) Yeah, sure.
RUSSELL: (As Felicity Porter) Great.
SPEEDMAN: (As Ben Covington) Of course. Yeah.
RUSSELL: (As Felicity Porter) OK.
BRIGER: (Laughter) That's a really hard scene to listen to.
RUSSELL: (Laughter) Oh, my God. Oh, it's - I haven't heard that in a million years. That is hilarious. Oh, my gosh.
BRIGER: But, you know, you're really good in that, though. Like, you're taking all these awkward pauses.
RUSSELL: (Laughter).
BRIGER: And it sounds really natural. But I have to say that she finds out, I think in that episode or the next episode, that he - on his college essay, he totally made up that his older brother died and that it was his dream all along to go to the school. And I have to say, Felicity should have totally left him at that point. Like, that...
RUSSELL: Completely.
BRIGER: That's a bad sign.
RUSSELL: Bad sign. But then I remember, at the end of the pilot, they're standing on a rooftop. And they're kind of like, oh, well, you know, this was our first few months, and you know, we're going to agree that - to put the past behind us. And she's maybe going to go back 'cause it was crazy for her to come to New York. And he says, yeah, I just - I can't wait to see what the city looks like when it snows. And it's just, like - he just - it's such, like, a romantic way of looking at the world and that time in your life when everything is new and in front of you. Oh, my God. It's so...
BRIGER: And so important, yeah.
RUSSELL: It's so sweet. It's such a sweet little something.
BRIGER: So when "Felicity" ended, you decided to take a break from acting. Can you talk about that decision?
RUSSELL: So "Felicity" was four years. And it was this big chunk of my 20s - you know, so grateful for it, saved a lot of money because, you know, we were working really long hours. On network shows, you know, you have about two months a year that you're not on that show. It takes - 'cause you're doing about 22, 24 episodes. And so, you know - what? - like, 16-hour days, 17- to 18-hour days sometimes. And I just felt like I had missed part of being a kid a little bit. So I took that money I had saved, and I rented an apartment in New York to be close to my girlfriends, Ilana and Lindsey. And I acted like a kid.
RUSSELL: Like, I didn't want to act. I wanted to show up to birthday parties that I wasn't able ever to 'cause, you know, when you're shooting a show, you're working till 10:30 at night. And then you wake up at 5, and you're on set the next day. So I missed out on, like, you know, stupid things - birthday parties and going out dancing and getting drunk and walking home drunk in the snow. And I got to do all of those things those few years in New York and, you know, just wander around listening to overly emotional teenage music, or, you know...
BRIGER: (Laughter) Yeah.
RUSSELL: ...Reading books all day. And it really - that step back is the only way I'm still in this business because I think I had to, like, know I wanted to do it again before it consumed me.
BRIGER: Well, Keri Russell, it's been such a pleasure talking with you today. Thank you so much for coming to FRESH AIR.
RUSSELL: Thank you so much.
BRIGER: I spoke with Keri Russell last year. Season 2 of her show, "The Diplomat," is currently streaming on Netflix.
Coming up, we remember writer Dorothy Allison, who wrote with painful honesty about the experience of being physically and sexually abused as a child. This is FRESH AIR. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
