STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
It will be natural for Democrats to look back on the way they waged this presidential campaign that they lost and ask if they could have done anything differently. After a disastrous debate over the summer, you will recall many called on President Biden to abandon his bid for a second term, which he eventually did. Kamala Harris replaced him at the top of the ticket. Texas Representative Lloyd Doggett was the first congressional Democrat to call for the president to withdraw, and he is on the line from Texas. Good morning, sir.
LLOYD DOGGETT: Good morning.
INSKEEP: Now that you know the results, do you feel it was still the right move?
DOGGETT: I believe it was. There was never a path to success had Biden remained our nominee. I think that's demonstrated by the fact that here on election eve only 41% of Americans gave his presidency a favorable rating and many people who said our country is on the wrong path. I think voters were demanding an agent of change. And after four years of being an agent for Biden, despite her best efforts, Vice President Harris simply could not convince enough voters that she was that agent of change.
INSKEEP: Why do you think that her warnings against the actions of former President Trump did not work or did not work sufficiently for her?
DOGGETT: I think we will be analyzing that for years. Certainly, there were some who did not agree on terms of gender, on terms of race - those were factors. But while it's well that we look at the source of our loss, I think, in short, there's just no sugarcoating what has happened here. This is a national catastrophe that will test to the fullest our institutions, and it will test each of our leaders to see if we can preserve our democracy and prevent the erosion of freedom.
INSKEEP: Well, you remain in one of those institutions, Representative Doggett, the House of Representatives. And our correspondent, Tamara Keith, who's here in Studio 31 with us has a question for you about that.
TAMARA KEITH, BYLINE: Yeah.
DOGGETT: Sure.
KEITH: Sir, I wanted to ask you, if there's going to be a Republican White House, a Republican Senate and possibly a narrowly Republican House - or maybe even not that narrowly - how do you imagine governing working? What is your experience in the past? What does it tell you about how this might work out?
DOGGETT: Well, I think we have experience in the past of the various rhetorical comments of President Trump as how he wants to change that. And with a Republican Senate, we will have his appointees, no matter how far out they may be, given the opportunity to be approved. He'll be given free rein to his worst instincts. There'll be no check from the Senate. It's the House of Representatives that needs to be a bulwark of freedom to resist the march to fascism if we can gain the majority.
INSKEEP: If I can just ask about the numbers there. If you can gain the majority - I want to bring people up to date. The House is undecided. Many races are uncalled. Analysts think you do still have a chance in the Democratic Party to get a majority in the House of Representatives. As a pro who's seen many an election, how do you feel about your chances as the ballots are counted in the coming days?
DOGGETT: Well, I remain hopeful. Of course, I was hopeful yesterday, too, so I want to be realistic about it. But I do think the races that are undecided, while close, could give us a chance to have the only institutional check on this president. The real check on this president has to be the American people going forward. And we have to - we have a measuring stick really, which is how are conditions now that have concerned people? And how will today's unemployment rate, inflation rate, health care - how will that compare with Trump implementing his campaign promises for these new tariff taxes, for mass deportations and soaring indebtedness to finances, tax cuts for the rich? I think those are going to have severe economic consequences, but we will need to be continually reminding people of how Trump has changed things for the worse. My concerns, though, I must say right now are not so much economic as to the suppression of freedom if he continues to urge the kind of takeover of every aspect of government that he's advanced with his vengeful approach.
INSKEEP: Which freedoms worry you? Which freedoms are at risk in your opinion?
DOGGETT: Well, he's talked about sending out U.S. attorneys to arrest his opponents. He has talked about suppression of the press, shutting down those press institutions that aren't supportive of him. These are all the tactics of fascism, and he's boasted of them. So hopefully some of that is just campaign rhetoric. But to the extent that he begins to do this, we have to resist and point that out and use the institutions that remain the independent judiciary to the extent we still have an independent judiciary to push back and defend our democracy.
MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
Congressman - sorry. Forgive me, congressman. It's Michel Martin. I want to pick up on this. What I am hearing from you is some really deep concern about what could happen next. And so the question I'd have for you is, what do you see as your role right now or going forward?
DOGGETT: Well, our role - first, our immediate role over the next few weeks is to fund the government for the rest of this year, but it will be a matter of scrutinizing every action that the Trump administration takes and to insist that this erosion of freedom and this march to fascism be slowed as much as we possibly can. There's no doubt he'll be able to do considerable damage. He seems determined to be unrestrained by rule of law or any other institution of government. I think the Senate offers little, if any, check with the Republican majority. But in the House, with or without a majority, we must speak out about everything that he does that does not comport with democratic tradition.
MARTIN: Congressman, if I could just ask one more question. We've been talking a lot this morning about what factors contributed to Donald Trump's victory here, which seems to be a very profound one and sweeping one at this point. Do you think this was mainly a matter of style, or was it a matter of substance? I mean, was this a matter of policies that were appealing, or was it something about his style that has just captivated the American people, at least the people who voted for him? And is there anything that you can do to counteract that?
DOGGETT: Well, I think it is some of both. It is the idea that conditions are such that we need a strong man to come in and solve all our problems, as he continually said, to fix everything, fix it so well we won't need to vote again. I think, as I said earlier, that voters were demanding an agent of change, and they saw him as a very forceful person, that even though his commentaries often didn't really make much sense, that he was going to shake things up, and he will. And shaking things up is not all bad as long as we follow democratic conditions, and the economic consequences are not disastrous.
INSKEEP: Representative Lloyd Doggett of Texas, thanks so much for your insights - really appreciate it.
DOGGETT: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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