ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
The first time I spoke to Manuel was on a crackly phone line. He was in an immigration detention center near Seattle. We've agreed not to use Manuel's full name because of his family's immigration status. It was 2017, and he'd been locked up for five months already. He would call his kids whenever he could and encourage them to stay brave.
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MANUEL: (Through interpreter) They asked me when I'm going to come back. It's very sad - very sad.
SHAPIRO: This was during Donald Trump's first term in office. Immigration and customs enforcement dramatically increased arrests far from the U.S.-Mexico border, including people like Manuel, who'd lived and worked in the U.S. for decades without incident. We followed his story for months, as his wife and four sons struggled to get by. Here's one of his sons, Alex, back then.
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ALEX: (Crying) Once they took him, my grades went down.
SHAPIRO: Yeah.
ALEX: (Crying) It was just very hard.
SHAPIRO: A court ordered that Manuel be deported.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: That respondent shall be removed from the United States.
SHAPIRO: He appealed his case, and then the court reversed its decision and granted him a withholding of removal. He was allowed to remain in the U.S. and return to his family.
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MANUEL: (Through interpreter) You feel like your heart is coming out of your chest. I'm very happy. Such good news after so much time.
SHAPIRO: Now, Trump has promised to deport more people over the next four years compared to his first administration, including arrests of people in the interior of the country who've not been accused of any crime since they crossed the border. So we called Manuel to see how the family is doing now.
MANUEL: Hello.
SHAPIRO: Hi. It is so good to hear your voice again.
MANUEL: You too. Thank you.
SHAPIRO: He told me he checks in with ICE once a year. He has a work permit that allowed him to start his own roofing business. But if he leaves the country, he won't be allowed to return, and he has no path to a green card or citizenship.
How does it feel to be able to do this publicly, legally, with authorization, after so many years of living in fear?
MANUEL: (Through interpreter) Well, I feel calm on the one hand because we don't know what's going to happen with the new administration. I'm trying to do things right so that I don't end up in danger of being removed from the country. That's why I'm working hard and doing everything legally, as it should be done. And I trust in God that everything will be OK.
SHAPIRO: I want to talk about the new administration in a moment, but first, does it feel like your family is still experiencing the trauma of your arrest and detention, or does that feel like something in the distant past?
MANUEL: (Through interpreter) Those memories stick like it happened yesterday - you know? -because it was such a tough time for us. My youngest kid suffered a lot psychologically.
SHAPIRO: It sounds like, even though this process was deeply painful, you ended up better off because you now have permission to stay in the country. You have a work permit that you did not have before ICE came knocking at the door. How do you think about that?
MANUEL: (Through interpreter) Well, I'm doing OK, like I mentioned, because I've got the work permit. But I'm also sad because my father passed away, and I wasn't able to be with him. My mother is also sick, and I don't know if I'm going to be able to see her again.
SHAPIRO: Oh, I'm so sorry, Manuel.
MANUEL: Mmm hmm. (Through interpreter) That's the reality of being here - we lose family, our parents, and we don't see them again.
SHAPIRO: When you speak to your mother, what does she say?
MANUEL: (Through interpreter) Well, she just wants to hug me again one day, like all mothers. We don't know if we will see each other again, and all she wants is to hug me again before she passes.
SHAPIRO: And do you think that will be possible?
MANUEL: (Through interpreter) Realistically, I don't know. We don't know what's going to happen with this new administration.
SHAPIRO: Let's talk about what this new administration might do. President-elect Trump says he will carry out mass deportations and use the military to enforce them. There are logistical and legal hurdles to execute that plan. But how are you thinking about the next four years?
MANUEL: (Through interpreter) Fear - that's why I'm trying to do all the right things legally - so that they don't have a reason to remove me from the country - not being a public charge or a threat to the community. In the future, I'd like to buy a home, a property, so that I can be at peace here with my family.
SHAPIRO: But if I'm correct, you never broke the law after you crossed the border. You were never a threat to the community. You never got in trouble.
MANUEL: (Through interpreter) Exactly. I've never done anything wrong. I crossed the border. And for them, that's a crime. Every time I leave the house, I make the sign of the cross and ask God to let me return home safely to my family.
SHAPIRO: Is this something that your family talks about often - the whole issue, the detention, the uncertain future - or is it something that your family prefers not to discuss, to leave it in the hands of God and to focus on other things?
MANUEL: (Through interpreter) We don't talk about it much, but it's always on our minds. We don't want to upset our kids.
SHAPIRO: You came to the United States in the 1990s with an idea about what this country is and what it represents. Over 30-some years, that idea will inevitably change. But for you, given what you and your family have been through, what is that idea now?
MANUEL: (Through interpreter) You come here believing in the American dream - to give your kids a better future. But really, it's very stressful. You basically live to work. This is a great country that provides a lot of opportunities. Very few people win cases like mine, and I'm very thankful to the people who helped me.
SHAPIRO: Manuel, you have now been through an experience that many other people may go through in the next four years. Do you have any advice for them?
MANUEL: (Through interpreter) I would only tell people who might find themselves having this bad experience to never give up. Never give up. Fight until the very end because family is the most important thing.
SHAPIRO: Well, Manuel, it is so good to speak with you again, and I hope you and your family have a happy and peaceful Thanksgiving.
MANUEL: Gracias ustedes.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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