Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s history of stoking anxiety about vaccines was the central topic on Thursday in his second day of Senate confirmation hearings. President Trump's choice to run the Department of Health and Human Services, Kennedy faced tough questions from Democrats, as well as a few key Republican senators.
Sen. Bill Cassidy, R-La., a physician and chairman of the committee, said he faced a "dilemma" over whether to support Kennedy's confirmation at the end of more than three hours of questioning Thursday.
'Gold standard science'
Throughout the Senate HELP (Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions) Committee hearing, Kennedy called for a return to "gold standard science" and said he would support vaccines if shown data backing their safety. But when presented with such data, Kennedy said he wasn't familiar with it or cited reasons to doubt it.
When Cassidy pointed to a 2014 meta-analysis of 1.2 million children that concluded there is no link between autism and vaccines, Kennedy responded: "You show me those scientific studies, and you and I can meet about it — and there are other studies as well, and I'd love to show those to you."
Those kinds of remarks seemed to trouble Cassidy, who spoke about a young patient he treated in Louisiana facing liver failure from Hepatitis B, which could have been prevented if the patient had been vaccinated. He also said that two children just died in a Louisiana ICU "from vaccine-preventable diseases." He said his experiences as a physician convinced him of the importance of vaccines.
"[Can a] 71 year-old-man who spent decades criticizing vaccines, and who's financially vested in finding fault with vaccines — can he change his attitudes and approach now that he'll have the most important position influencing vaccine policy in the United States?" Cassidy asked. "I got to figure that out for my vote."
Cassidy's support could be critical to Kennedy's approval. He also sits on the Finance committee, which has the say over whether Kennedy's nomination advances to a full Senate vote.
Vaccine questions from both parties
Most Republicans on the committee seemed to welcome Kennedy's views, including in regards to vaccines. Sen. Tom Tuberville, R-Ala., said during the hearing that his soon-expected first granddaughter would not be "a pincushion," referring to vaccines. Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., said people should be open-minded about any possibility that could be a factor in autism.
Kennedy often did not answer directly when pressed on his decades of anti-vaccine activism. Many senators described Kennedy as extremely influential. "I have constituents who partly credit you for their decision to not vaccinate their child," Cassidy told him.
During one exchange with Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., Kennedy said he would recommend parents vaccinate their children against measles. But when asked by Cassidy to state "unequivocally and without qualification" that measles and Hepatitis B vaccines don't cause autism, Kennedy would not give a yes or no answer.
In Wednesday's hearing, Kennedy said that his own children were vaccinated and that he was supportive of the childhood vaccine schedule. However, Mary Holland, CEO of Children's Health Defense, the anti-vaccine advocacy group Kennedy is closely allied with and used to run, told Politico that she expected Kennedy to undertake a "penetrating" review of that schedule if he's confirmed as HHS secretary, and insisted that his longtime skepticism of vaccines has not changed.
An emotional moment
Sen. Maggie Hassan, D-N.H., brought the room to silence while questioning Kennedy Thursday, speaking tearfully about her 36-year-old son's cerebral palsy.
"A day does not go by when I don't think about — what did I do when I was pregnant with him that might have caused the hydrocephalus that has so impacted his life? So please do not suggest that anybody in this body, of either political party, doesn't want to know what the cause of autism is," Hassan said. "When you continue to sow doubt about settled science, it makes it impossible for us to move forward."
Another tense moment came when Sen. Angela Alsobrooks, the newly elected Democratic senator from Maryland, questioned Kennedy. Alsobrooks asked about his claim in a 2021 appearance that: "We should not be giving Black people the same vaccine schedule that's given to whites because their immune system is better than ours."
Kennedy replied by mentioning "a series of studies," that may include 2014 research from the Mayo Clinic that showed a more robust immune response among African American participants in a study of the rubella vaccine.
"What different vaccine schedule would you say I should have received?" Alsobrooks, who is Black, asked Kennedy. "That is so dangerous," she added.
'People in authority lie'
Democrats continued questioning Kennedy on some of his wilder claims that lack evidence, including that Wi-Fi and 5G cause cancer, that AIDS is a different disease in Africa than in the U.S., and that Lyme disease may have been developed as a military bioweapon.
Kennedy said he stood behind his claims about Wi-Fi and his description of AIDS. He said he "never believed" Lyme was created by the military, but did not disavow his earlier statements. He cited three books suggesting the theory that he admitted he had not read thoroughly.
Sen. Tim Kaine, D-Va., confronted Kennedy about a social media post referring to the 9/11 attacks he made during his presidential run last year, Kennedy wrote: "It's hard to tell what is a conspiracy theory and what isn't" and said if elected he would not "take sides on 9/11."
"As a general matter, do you find it hard to tell what is a conspiracy theory and what isn't? Is that kind of a general deficit that you find in your own analytical abilities?" Kaine asked. Kennedy responded that his father had taught him that "people in authority lie."
A weak grasp on health policy
Kennedy stumbled in his first hearing on Wednesday when asked about Medicare and Medicaid — two enormous health insurance programs he would oversee as HHS secretary. On Thursday, senators continued questioning his basic knowledge of the programs and of health policy more broadly. Hassan quizzed him on different aspects of Medicare and his answers were incorrect.
He was questioned by Ranking Member Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., about congressional Republican proposals to make dramatic cuts to Medicaid. Kennedy said he hadn't seen those proposals. "You're going to have a significant influence on health care policy" if confirmed, Sanders said.
"I can only tell you what President Trump has told me, which is that he wants me to make Medicaid, Medicare and Obamacare better," Kennedy said.
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