SACHA PFEIFFER, HOST:
Every week, a famous guest draws a card from the Wild Card deck and answers a big question about their life. Michael Shannon is best known for acting. He starred in "Shape Of Water" and "Boardwalk Empire," and he's currently busy doing things off camera. He debuts as a director in the movie "Eric Larue," out this spring, and his REM cover band is hitting the road. These projects all feel fitting for Shannon, who says that change is the only constant in his life.
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MICHAEL SHANNON: When you act, you create these little societies or civilizations to create some piece of art, and then you finish, and they disappear. And it's kind of, like, the rhythm of my life. And there's certain relationships that carry on through those or people that you work with multiple occasions, but for the most part, you get very accustomed to things not being stable or reliable or things changing, you know?
PFEIFFER: Michael Shannon talked with Wild Card host Rachel Martin about some of the other changes he's experienced.
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RACHEL MARTIN: What does age teach you about love?
SHANNON: Oh, my God.
MARTIN: Is that a good, oh, my God, or a bad one?
SHANNON: No, it just moved me. They're very linked, obviously. Age - you - I think, you know, when you're young, love is very self - can be very self-serving. You're like - you want love from other people. You want to have love or to have, you know, a relationship. And then as you get older, you realize that it's probably ultimately more important to love others regardless of what you get in return.
MARTIN: Yeah.
SHANNON: It becomes, hopefully, less transactional and more just a state of being...
MARTIN: Yeah.
SHANNON: ...You know, which is - can be hard to accept.
MARTIN: I had a conversation with my sister that you just reminded me of, that is - it's a thing that I've learned as you get old about love - that it's just you. It's all you got, actually, is you.
SHANNON: Yeah.
MARTIN: And if you can't be OK with you, then it's harder to love people without expectation or attachment or consequence. And...
SHANNON: Right.
MARTIN: ...And that's hard. I don't think that comes naturally to any of us. That's a tough lesson.
SHANNON: Well, and it's liberating in a way. If you can really do it in an honest, authentic way, it's actually very freeing, but it - unfortunately, it seems to be something you can't get to without experiencing a fair amount of pain (laughter).
MARTIN: Yeah. Yeah.
SHANNON: Yeah.
MARTIN: Michael Shannon's new movie, "Eric Larue," will be out this spring. You can see him on tour, covering R.E.M.'s "Fables Of The Reconstruction" album this winter. Michael, thank you so much for talking with me. I really appreciate it.
SHANNON: My pleasure.
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PFEIFFER: Michael Shannon is heading out on tour with his R.E.M. cover band in February. His directorial debut, the movie "Eric Larue," is out in March. You can hear more of that conversation with Michael Shannon on the Wild Card podcast. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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