SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
It was a week where the Trump White House tried to freeze all federal grants then walked the move back. It was a week where President Trump riffed at length on a deadly tragedy, offering freelance opinions on who was to blame for a catastrophic plane crash. It was a week where, just like the first time around, it was really hard to get a sense of what actions or statements really mattered. To try and make sense of it all, I talked it through with two of NPR's White House correspondents, Tamara Keith and Franco Ordoñez. Tam, Franco, good to talk to both of you.
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: Hey, Scott.
TAMARA KEITH, BYLINE: Good to be with you.
DETROW: A lot happened this week. There was a lot to focus on. It was hard to really get a sense of what mattered and what didn't. So I want to frame this conversation exactly that way. I'll start with this, and Tam, I'll start with you. What mattered this week?
KEITH: What I would say is that if Week 1 was the fully planned out, mapped out from start to finish week of the Trump administration, then week - and it was shock and awe. Then Week 2 was not quite as perfectly plotted and perfectly planned, and there was a little bit more chaos, and there was a lot more of Trump being Trump.
DETROW: Yeah.
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah, it was a lot like what we were used to from the first four years...
DETROW: Yeah.
ORDOÑEZ: ...Of covering Trump - you know, this governing by tweet - or not necessarily tweet but by social media, all the - you know, the big puffing out of the chest, the blaming everybody on other issues. I'm talking about the plane crash, of course, blaming it on the Biden administration, on his predecessor, blaming it on DEI, all without any evidence. And then you have the OMB memo, which was, of course, the Office of Management Budget - the memo that they put out freezing federal grants and other financial assistance across the board, which created all kinds of chaos across states and agencies...
DETROW: Right.
ORDOÑEZ: ...Etc.
DETROW: And Franco, is it fair to say, when you're both talking about why this matters - it feels like we can take away, one, this Trump White House is going to be really aggressive about really changing the federal bureaucracy. It feels like it can do that this time around - and 2, Trump is gonna put himself into every situation and go on the political attack?
ORDOÑEZ: Yeah.
DETROW: Anything I'm missing there?
ORDOÑEZ: No, no. I think that's absolutely true. I mean, to me, the big picture of this week is this is a week that showed all the signs of how the administration is really trying to shake up Washington and exert more power over the federal government. And we're seeing how they do that.
KEITH: They want the fight. They want the fight. They want to take it all the way to the Supreme Court. They think that they will win. And even in the process, even if they don't win, they will make it clear to America that this is a hostile takeover of the federal government. And they will get some of what they want anyway by sort of pushing out federal employees who just can't take the uncertainty.
DETROW: So let's shift to my second question. If that's what mattered, what didn't matter? What was just noise? Franco?
ORDOÑEZ: Well, I mean, I guess I would kind of want to reframe the question a teeny bit. I mean, I do think that everything matters. What I think, though, is important is that some may matter more than others, and we're just not going to know for a while. It's only been two weeks, and there's really a lot that needs to happen. I mean, just take the birthright citizenship. That's already in the courts. Let's see where that goes. That could fizzle out. Trump keeps talking about tariffs. You know, there's a lot of things that can - that he is promising, that he is talking about, but not everything is going to happen.
Just another example - immigration. He is making big, big moves on immigration, making a lot of noise, taking a lot of pictures, making a big, big deal of all the deportation flights that are going to South America and Central America. The thing is, the U.S. only has a certain limited amount of resources to do this kind of thing that I think there are going to be big questions about whether this can be sustained.
KEITH: So what I would say is over the weekend, heading into Monday, there had been a 12-hour trade war with Colombia. And it seemed like it could really matter, and there were going to be tariffs. And then all of a sudden, it was gone, and the flights resumed to Colombia. And the White House said Trump won, and Colombia said, things are fine. And life moved on, and we almost forgot within 24 hours about that happening. It's possible that that was a precursor to many fake trade wars that we might experience. Or it's possible that that was a warning shot to the entire world and especially American allies. And I think we don't know yet...
DETROW: Yeah.
KEITH: ...I guess to agree with Franco - we don't know yet whether that will matter or not, but we sure forgot about it fast.
DETROW: And that's pertinent 'cause you - we are all talking right now shortly after an announced 25% tariffs going into place, at least in theory, on Mexico and Canada this weekend. So that's a big question over the next week, but let me ask one more question about the week that just happened. We talked about what mattered. We talked about what maybe didn't matter, but again, we don't know for sure yet. Let me ask you a final question. What fundamentally changed things that happened this week? Did anything jump out to you as, OK, this is a clear change?
ORDOÑEZ: I mean, I personally think that the big change is these attacks on the federal workforce. I mean, I have talked to so many federal workers who are just essentially freaking out about all that is happening. There has never been such an administration that has so forcefully went on the attack of tens of thousands of civil workers, asking for federal workers to consider resigning and that they may get the - they'll continue to get paid for several months. I mean, this is a significant move of kind of changing the workforce to bring in people who will be more loyal to this president so that he can push through all these changes that we're talking about.
KEITH: This is a week where Trump saw more backlash and, perhaps in the eyes of Democrats, looked a little bit less invincible than he did in the first week. And yet, at the same time, he got more of his cabinet nominees confirmed, including someone like Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who a few weeks ago, we would have thought had potentially real trouble.
DETROW: Yeah.
KEITH: And you also had the White House with this Office of Management and Budget memo doing something that created a conflict, a potential conflict, with Congress. And yet Democrats were the only ones putting up the fight. So while it was a week that made it look like Trump may not be invincible, it was also a week where Trump proved that he is dominating Republicans in Congress. He's in the driver's seat. He's in charge. They're not pushing back.
DETROW: That is Tamara Keith and Franco Ordoñez, who both cover the White House for NPR. Thanks to both of you for talking to me about this past week.
ORDOÑEZ: Scott, great to be here.
KEITH: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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