SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Even judging by the standards that he set during his time on the National stage, President Donald Trump's statement this past week that the U.S. would take ownership of the Gaza Strip was shocking. During a press conference with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Trump said the two leaders had talked about relocating some 1.8 million Palestinians and leveling then totally rebuilding Gaza.
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PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it, too. We'll own it.
DETROW: The announcement drew condemnation from leaders around the world, and some senior Trump aides have tried to walk back aspects of the plan. But should the plan or something like it go forward, Gaza would change, as would its relationship with the other Palestinian territory, the West Bank.
For one perspective on this, we have called Dr. Mustafa Barghouti, who's a political leader in the West Bank. He's the general secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative and a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council. He joins us now from Ramallah in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. Welcome to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI: Thank you so much. Thank you.
DETROW: You, along with others - you publicly condemned President Trump's proposal. I'm curious. How are you and your colleagues in West Bank leadership talking about this this week? What are you thinking about?
BARGHOUTI: Well, as I said in several interviews, President Trump's proposal is not just destructive to the possibility of peace in this region, but it is actually also criminal.
DETROW: How so?
BARGHOUTI: Because what he called for are two war crimes - the first crime is that he called for ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people who live in Gaza, who are part of the Palestinian people in general. And second, he called for the theft of the land of Gaza Strip and to take it over. This land belongs to the people who live there, belongs to the people who lived there for thousands of years and who have their dreams, their history, their civilization, their belongings, and he just want to take it over.
DETROW: As is often the case when President Trump makes a statement like this, there was a lot of analysis that perhaps he didn't actually mean that, but perhaps he was trying to set the framework for negotiations to lead to some sort of outcome. You, as somebody very close to this issue - I'm wondering what you make of that analysis and that thinking and just kind of, again, what the conversations you've had with other leaders are about what comes next now that this proposal is out there.
BARGHOUTI: We're talking about the president of the United States. I don't think he jokes when he speaks. And we're talking about the most powerful country in the world. To be advocate of violation of international law in such a manner is really shameful.
DETROW: What, to you, is the best alternative? What, to you, is the best path forward in Gaza? - because there's no question there has been widespread destruction in Gaza. So much has been leveled, destroyed. So many people have died. How would you rebuild?
BARGHOUTI: In my opinion, the alternative is, first of all, to make sure that the ceasefire shall continue, that Israel would not be allowed to go back to war, and then there has to be an international Arab Muslim coalition that would provide support to the people of Gaza to reconstruct and rebuild Gaza and initiate a true peace approach solution that allows Palestinians to be free from this terrible occupation so that everybody can enjoy security, whether we are talking about Palestinians or Israelis.
DETROW: At this moment in time, who is in charge of Gaza? Who do you think should have the responsibility to rebuild, to plan for its future? - because if you look at public support in the Gaza strip, it seems like many people there would like Hamas to remain in charge.
BARGHOUTI: I know, but Hamas told us frankly and openly and clearly, in our meetings of all Palestinian groups which took place in Beijing, that they are ready to - not to be in the government of Gaza and not to be the government of Gaza. And the solution is simple. I personally drafted it in agreement with all the representatives of the 14 parties, which is to create a national consensus Palestinian government, which consists mainly of independent professionals who will be accepted by everybody and will be cooperated with by everybody.
But it will be a government for both West Bank and Gaza so that nobody would separate Gaza from the West Bank and continue to kill the idea of a Palestinian independent state, so a national consensus government that would eventually prepare for free democratic elections which we didn't have since 20 years. And I assure you, if we have elections - we're using proportional system, so if we have elections, no single party will have majority. That's for sure. All polls show that.
So in my opinion, this is the solution, a national consensus government. And nobody wants to continue this war. Nobody wants to go back to war. And this government can be responsible, in cooperation with the Arab governments and hopefully with many people in the international community, of reconstructing Gaza and rebuilding it. And then, in my opinion, the whole world must exercise pressure on Israel to end occupation. This is the road, the path, that was never tried, ending occupation and allowing Palestinians to be free from occupation and build our own future independently with freedom.
DETROW: If you could speak directly to President Trump right now, what would you say to him?
BARGHOUTI: I would say to him, if you want to get Nobel Peace Prize, the road is simple. Pressure Israel to end occupation. Allow Palestinians to be free. You are most welcome to bring international troops if you want and put them on the borders between the Palestinian state and Israel to provide security for everybody. Then you can get Nobel Peace Prize. But if you proceed to advocate ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people, of Gaza, and continue to be totally biased to Israel in the way and manner you are, you will be described in history as a war criminal, not as a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
I will be frank with him. I think he likes people to be honest and frank with him. It's either peace by ending Israeli occupation and allowing Palestinians to have self-determination and freedom, or it's war crime. That is the reality of what we see today.
DETROW: That's Dr. Mustafa Barghouti, general secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative and a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council. Thank you so much.
BARGHOUTI: Thank you. Take care.
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