MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
On the second day of his visit with NATO, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth had to explain what he said on the first day. Allies were especially concerned that President Trump had held a phone call with Russian President Vladimir Putin to push for a peace deal with Ukraine without notifying European countries. Teri Schultz was at NATO headquarters. She's here now. Hi, Teri.
TERI SCHULTZ, BYLINE: Hi, Mary Louise.
KELLY: I gather there may be some evolution in what Defense Secretary Hegseth is saying about President Trump's plan on Ukraine.
SCHULTZ: Yeah, that's one way to put it. As you mentioned, Pete Hegseth gave a really extensive press conference at the end of his two days of talks with NATO allies that were focused mostly on Ukraine. And he was peppered with questions about what happened on the first day, about President Trump's announcement that he expects these peace talks to begin imminently. So yesterday, Hegseth said Ukraine would basically have to accept that it wasn't going to get the territory back that Russia has illegally seized and that it wasn't going to be assured of NATO membership by any possible peace negotiations. Today, Hegseth described things a bit differently.
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PETE HEGSETH: These negotiations are led by President Trump. Everything is on the table in his conversations with Vladimir Putin and Zelenskyy. What he decides to allow or not allow is at the purview of the leader of the free world, of President Trump. So I'm not going to stand at this podium and declare what President Trump will do or won't do, what will be in or what will be out, what concessions will be made or what concessions are not made.
SCHULTZ: But allies felt like yesterday, that is, in fact, what Hegseth did. So they're a bit confused and wondering what exactly lies in stores with this process led by Washington. And I can only imagine that's even more acute for the Ukrainians.
KELLY: Tell me more, Teri, about what you are actually hearing from European NATO members as they react to Trump's initiative in calling Putin and then President Zelenskyy of Ukraine, so far as we know, without any coordination with NATO.
SCHULTZ: Yeah, we don't think they talked to any European leaders here before those phone calls, and that hasn't gone over very well, especially when coupled with the fact that Hegseth emphasized it would be the Europeans who have to support any potential ceasefire financially, militarily and physically with a peacekeeping force.
So here are a couple reactions I'll share with you, the first one being from the German Defence Minister Boris Pistorius. Now, as you know well, Germany is often accused of being reluctant to support Ukraine or at least being slow to do it. Hegseth called Trump the world's best negotiator, but listen to how Pistorius assessed the president's tactics.
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BORIS PISTORIUS: (Through interpreter) What is regrettable, and I say this is part of it, is that the Trump administration has already made public concessions to Putin before negotiations have even begun. In my view, it would have been better to discuss Ukraine's possible NATO membership or the country's possible loss of territory at the negotiating table and not to take it off the table beforehand.
SCHULTZ: So the other really prominent criticism today came from the European Union side of things, EU Foreign Policy Chief Kaja Kallas, who was invited to part of the defense ministers meeting. And she warned the U.S. they can't make any agreement stick without their European allies.
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KAJA KALLAS: It is clear that any deal behind our backs will not work. Any agreement will need also Ukraine and Europe being part of it. And this is clear that appeasement also always fails.
SCHULTZ: So she went so far as to say that any quick fix is a dirty deal.
KELLY: Teri Schultz there in Brussels, reporting on an alliance that likes to see itself as united behind the same values. Sounds like that was a hard sell this week - Teri Schultz, thank you.
SCHULTZ: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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