ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
One big part of President Trump's agenda is something he didn't really mention during the campaign - expanding the U.S. footprint. He's talked about making Canada the 51st state and taking over the Gaza Strip. He says he wants to buy Greenland and reclaim the Panama Canal. Well, earlier this month, I went to Panama, covering Secretary of State Marco Rubio's visit there. And my cohost Juana Summers is reporting from Greenland right now. We're going to hear her stories next week. So we're going to take a few minutes to compare notes about what I saw in the tropics and what she is seeing in the Arctic. Hey, Juana.
JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
Hey, Ari.
SHAPIRO: What is Trump's message about Greenland?
SUMMERS: Well, as many people may remember, Trump's desire to own Greenland really dates back to his first presidency. When he's talked about it, he has said that it is an absolute necessity for the U.S. to gain Greenland. Greenland is the world's largest island, and it's an autonomous territory of Denmark. And in recent days, leaders of both Greenland and Denmark have made very clear that this country is not for sale, there's no price tag for it. But what seems to really be different this time compared to 2019, when Trump started talking about this, is the way that Trump has talked about it. He was asked about the situation at a press conference. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF PRESS CONFERENCE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can you assure the world that, as you try to get control of these areas, you are not going to use military or economic coercion?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: No. I can't assure you. You're talking about Panama and Greenland. No, I can't assure you on either of those two.
SUMMERS: And, Ari, when he's talking there about military and economic coercion, he wasn't just talking about Greenland. He was also talking about Panama, so...
SHAPIRO: Yep.
SUMMERS: ...I'm so curious to hear from you a bit more about how people on your trip and your reporting were reacting to Trump's rhetoric.
SHAPIRO: People are definitely anxious about him leaving the door open to military action. Panama has been a strong U.S. ally for decades. But when I visited, I was struck by the amount of nationalism. There were flags everywhere - Panamanian flags lining the highway, flying from buildings, popped into people's front yards. People told me, even on Independence Day, they didn't see that many Panamanian flags. And also, because the secretary of state chose Panama as the first country he would visit after being sworn in, there were protests. People marched and shut down main arterial streets in Panama City. They burned American flags. Here were some of their chants.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTORS: (Chanting in Spanish).
SHAPIRO: I mean, they were saying things like, Marco Rubio, get out of Panama, and Panama is not for sale, we will defend it. I talked to this high school art teacher named Marlenis Nunez, who was in one of those demonstrations organized by the teachers' union.
MARLENIS NUNEZ: (Speaking Spanish).
SHAPIRO: She's saying, "the canal is ours, and that's how it will remain." She said she was going to defend the canal. And I said, but, look, you're a teacher and not a soldier. Here's how she responded.
NUNEZ: (Speaking Spanish).
SHAPIRO: She said, "he's going to have to kill us all. We're small, but we have a huge heart."
SUMMERS: Wow.
SHAPIRO: What's the scene been like where you are? Anyone shutting down the streets with protests?
SUMMERS: No streets shut down here. I mean, there are some similar themes, but the reaction has really been more subtle here than I think from what you describe in Panama. But it's also created a lot of anxiety and, frankly, fatigue among people here who I think are frustrated with how many international journalists are coming into the country and asking them questions about what Trump says and may do. We spent an afternoon out in Nuuk, which is the capital of Greenland, and producer Matt Ozug and I were just trying to talk to all these people. And I have to say, almost every person said they were not interested in talking to us at all.
SHAPIRO: Oh, how frustrating.
SUMMERS: A little bit. But one man did stop as he was leaving the shopping center that's kind of in the middle of Nuuk. Take a listen. This is Miki Jacobsen. He is a local artist here.
MIKI JACOBSEN: I think it's a ridiculous way to look at other countries, that you can purchase it like an item. Maybe Americans should know that we're not an item from a store.
SUMMERS: And, of course, what we heard from Miki Jacobsen is just one snapshot, so I want to give you a sense of what the public sentiment here has been like. There was a poll that was commissioned recently by a Danish newspaper, and it found that only 6% of Greenlanders would actually support the idea of becoming part of the U.S.
SHAPIRO: Six percent - wow, small number there.
SUMMERS: Yeah, it feels really telling. Ari, I wonder if you can help us understand why President Trump - what's the case he's making when it comes to why he'd want to control the Panama Canal?
SHAPIRO: The U.S. has a huge economic interest in Panama. Trump has talked a lot about the fees that the U.S. pays to use the canal, but he also talks a lot about Chinese influence. He has falsely claimed that China operates the canal. He has said Chinese soldiers are there. That is not true. In fact, the canal is operated by an independent authority in Panama. There are five different ports, and two of those ports are run, owned and operated by a Hong Kong-based company, so those have come under a lot of scrutiny.
But more broadly, China's influence in Latin America has grown, as it has built a lot of infrastructure. Diplomats who we've talked to have said the U.S. has been a little bit checked out of that. And the fact that Rubio chose Latin America as the first place he would visit suggests that the U.S. disengagement from this part of the world is about to change.
SUMMERS: Yeah, it's a really telling decision by Marco Rubio.
SHAPIRO: Juana, let me ask you the same question about Greenland. I know some people have accused Trump of having self-serving interests, like his former national security adviser, John Bolton, who you spoke to. What's the strategic case the administration's making there?
SUMMERS: Yeah, so when you listen to Trump talk about Greenland, the argument really does seem to boil down to security. As many know, Russia and China are increasingly active in this region, in the Arctic. And Greenland also contains these large deposits of rare-earth minerals, which are attractive and incredibly valuable.
So I have to tell you about a meeting that we had when we were here in Greenland. We sat down with a guy named Tom Dans. He was appointed to the U.S. Arctic Research Commission during Trump's first term. He is outside of government now, and he told me that he's launched this nonprofit focused on advocating for closer ties between the U.S. and Greenland. I wanted to ask him about this, and this is what he told me.
TOM DANS: Greenland is kind of the front door of the United States. It's the first place you pass on the approach - maritime passage - to us, so that's something you can't put a price on. I think President Trump comes in and recognizes that our security is at threat today.
SUMMERS: And just to put what Dans is saying into some context there, the U.S. has been interested in Greenland for many years and established military bases in this country during World War II. And today, the U.S. military does still run a base called the Pituffik Space Base, which specializes in missile defense. And the U.S. could, if it wants to, expand its operations here in Greenland with approvals from both Greenland and Denmark. I talked about the state of this relationship with Aqqaluk Lynge. He's a former member of parliament, and he's also the former president of the Inuit Circumpolar Council.
AQQALUK LYNGE: We are threatened by our best ally, but now it's the most feared country in the world now. And I think that the way that people have changed so much, the...
SUMMERS: After the inauguration?
LYNGE: Yeah, that it has changed the mood completely.
SUMMERS: And, Ari, you hear him there talking about feeling threatened, being feared, talking about how the U.S. was once seen as Greenland's best ally. That's one of the things we hope to chip away as we continue our reporting here, is the impact that Trump's rhetoric is really having on people's lives, as well as just, frankly, introducing people to this small territory that finds itself perhaps in an unwanted international spotlight due to rhetoric coming from the United States.
SHAPIRO: That seems to be so true of both Greenland and Panama. You have these two less powerful countries that always felt, in a sense, protected by their very close ally, the United States, that now feel threatened by this much more powerful force.
SUMMERS: That's right. Looking forward to getting to dig into that more.
SHAPIRO: That's my cohost Juana Summers, reporting from the capital of Greenland, Nuuk. Look forward to hearing your stories. Thanks.
SUMMERS: Thank you, Ari.
(SOUNDBITE OF IDK SONG, "DENIM" FEAT. JOEY BADA$$) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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