SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
It was a single line in a State Department budget spreadsheet - $400 million to purchase armored vehicles from Tesla.
BOBBY ALLYN, BYLINE: Having ambassadors and dignitaries around the world, you know, driving around in armored Cybertrucks - I mean, that would really be a pretty remarkable thing.
DETROW: That's Bobby Allyn, an NPR tech reporter who has covered Elon Musk for years. It would be a remarkable thing because Musk is both a Trump administration adviser and, as the CEO of Tesla, the would-be beneficiary of that $400 million windfall.
ALLYN: We got a statement from the State Department that basically said, oh, yeah, this started in the Biden administration, and we've canceled this contract. Don't worry about it. But, you know, I got a note from somebody saying, you know, I'm in a position to know this is incorrect.
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DETROW: The source had a document, but they were hesitant to share it.
ALLYN: They're terrified, Scott. I mean, this person fears retaliation. They fear threats against them, threats against their family. They fear lawsuits. I mean, nobody really wants to cross someone like Elon Musk.
DETROW: And that began the delicate dance that happens between sources and reporters. It took five or six phone calls before Bobby could even convince the source to share their identity. And even then, the source didn't want to send the document digitally, so Bobby went analog.
ALLYN: So we had a colleague at NPR, Scott, drive to this person's house, get a copy of the document, scan it in and then send it to me, and I got it. And the document showed definitively that the Biden administration had not set aside $400 million for Tesla, but the entire EV budget for the State Department was somewhere in the ballpark of $400,000.
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DETROW: And all of that provides a small window into the process of reporting on the firehose of news coming out of the Trump administration. This is a very specific kind of journalism, one that relies on trust building and access. So today, for our weekly Reporter's Notebook segment, we are going to jump into that world with Bobby Allyn, a reporter who loves to fight for a scoop.
ALLYN: You talk to journalists, and they like different parts of the job. Some people love the reporting. Some people love the writing. Some people - if you're a broadcast journalist, you know - like being live. The thing that I really relish is the negotiation with a source to get information. As soon as I hear that a source has something and they might be reluctant to give it, my reporterly Spidey-sense (ph) just kind of goes off. And I...
DETROW: Yeah.
ALLYN: ...Just really hone in on it, and I'm like, how can I get this person to either give me this information or give me the document? And it's a process. And this does kind of tap into, I think, you know, part of my personal history. I come from a family of car salespeople in rural Pennsylvania. And growing up, I just was constantly hearing about deals closing, negotiation, how you charm someone, how you get them to leave the lot with a car. And me as a journalist - I'm like, how can I leave this conversation with a...
DETROW: ...With a document.
ALLYN: With a document. It might sound absurd, but I - to me, there's some kind of connection there.
DETROW: It's a low APR on that document. Don't worry about it.
ALLYN: (Laughter) Exactly.
DETROW: So, Bobby, you've covered tech for a long time. You've covered Elon Musk for a long time. How has DOGE and this big presence of this storyline changed your reporting and your focus?
ALLYN: Well, I'm now a government reporter. I never thought I would be (laughter), right? I've been focusing, as you mentioned, on the tech industry and Elon Musk for some time. And I went from just writing about Silicon Valley to trying to understand, you know, how Washington works.
DETROW: Yeah.
ALLYN: And I think a lot of tech reporters are scratching their heads and, like, you know, learning just how complicated it is to be a Washington reporter. I have a new appreciation for it.
DETROW: I want to - when it comes to covering Elon Musk, I want to talk about a very particular incident that you had covering him. Let's set the stage. It's the fall of 2022. Elon Musk has just bought Twitter for some $40 billion, right? Pick up the story from there.
ALLYN: Right. He takes the platform over and unleashes a set of changes that are whiplash inducing, including blue checks. You know, the verified blue check now is something you can buy. And that led to all of these incidents of, you know, huge companies being impersonated by folks who were paying for a blue check and causing all sorts of havoc; the reinstatement of sort of far-right figures, like Alex Jones and a number of other individuals who were banned from the platform being brought back; he affixed on NPR's Twitter account a label that suggested that we were a state-owned media. A number of changes that led the network - and, again, Scott, you and I had nothing to do with this decision - just pointing that out there. But NPR decided to not participate in Twitter anymore.
And during this time, as a business reporter, I was communicating with Elon. And at one point, I said, why did you affix this state-affiliated media label to NPR? I mean, surely you know that, like, 1% of our budget is government funding, 99% isn't. I mean, where is this coming from?
DETROW: And I should say, these interactions were over email mostly, right?
ALLYN: All over email - and he made a threat to me. And he said if NPR doesn't come back to Twitter, I'm going to - this is not an exact quote, but this was the spirit of it - I'm going to basically hold an auction and give @NPR to the highest bidder. And I said, oh, that's weird. And then I took a beat, Scott, and I was like, wait, is the richest man in the world making a threat to me (laughter)? Is he basically blackmailing me and saying, if the company I work for - if my employer doesn't do something to benefit his company, he's going to retaliate? And I said, hey, I think that's a news story (laughter)...
DETROW: Yeah.
ALLYN: ...Right? So I write it up as a news story - 2:03 a.m. that night, I get an email from him with the subject line, you suck, nothing in the body.
DETROW: How'd that make you feel?
ALLYN: Well, it's what Elon Musk biographer Walter Isaacson calls Elon demon mode. There are many Elons, right? I think this was a good illustration of demon mode, meaning this, like, kind of mean-spirited, kind of childish, impulsive kind of part of him that sometimes takes over. I mean, I kind of chuckled. I - didn't really upset me, but I thought, this is unexpected. I mean, it was surprised. I was kind of shocked, but at the same time, I'm like, you suck? Really? I mean, are we 10 years old on a school playground? I mean, how pathetic is this, right (laughter)? I mean...
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DETROW: What, if anything, from that period of time helps you understand what Elon Musk is doing in his position of power right now?
ALLYN: Yeah, I mean, what that whole saga illustrated is just how many versions of Elon there really are. What you're often seeing on X is this - is the demon mode - right? - is this very sort of childish, impulsive kind of version of Elon, who's sharing memes and criticizing people and spreading silliness or spreading disinformation. But there's another side of him, too. I mean, he does have a certain amount of engineering genius to him, right? I mean, he's the richest man in the world for a reason, right? He does have - when it comes to material sciences, when it comes to engineering, he has a really special mind.
But he's also just, like, the most impulsive person I have ever dealt with, and I think that's important to dwell on in this moment. People are all always asking me, Elon Musk just did this controversial thing that's grabbing headlines. What is his end goal? And sometimes with Elon, he doesn't quite know, right? He's operating in the moment. It's this id-driven kind of thing, and what he thinks and how he feels today might change in 24 hours. This is just being part of the Elon Musk vortex, and it's full of mayhem, and it's full of constantly being confused and trying to make sense of it. But that's what it is.
DETROW: Given all of that, there has been so much obsession on understanding his political transformation. Do you see him as a different person? Or in the end, is this just the same dude who sent you a 2 a.m. email telling you that you suck?
ALLYN: (Laughter) Right. I think there were a number of radicalizing events for Elon Musk. One of them was during the pandemic and the COVID lockdowns that shut down his Tesla plants. He was very angry about that. Another was what he saw as sort of the aperture of free speech closing on Twitter. And we could debate the merits of that some other time. But to Elon Musk, liberals started dominating the conversation and the dialogue and the shape of the discourse on Twitter. And that was so upsetting to him that he wanted to buy the platform and upend all of the rules.
But what he does have is this almost addiction to risk, an addiction to proving people wrong, and we're seeing that play out in the White House now. It's like USAID. Some are saying 20% of this agency should be reduced. And he says, why don't we try to reduce it right down to its studs, nearly dismantle the entire agency? I mean, when somebody makes a proposal, he tries to go way, way, way farther, to the point where many people will see this and say, this is unfathomable. This can't be done. And Elon will say, let me prove you wrong.
DETROW: That is NPR's Bobby Allyn, tech reporter who now covers DOGE for us, pulling back the curtain on his reporting. Bobby, I just want to say you don't suck. I think, actually, you're pretty great.
ALLYN: (Laughter) Thanks, Scott. Appreciate you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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