AILSA CHANG, HOST:
We begin this hour in Washington, D.C., where a federal judge expressed skepticism today about the White House's push to deport alleged gang members under a wartime authority known as the Alien Enemies Act. U.S. District Judge James Boasberg called the expanded use of the Act, quote, "incredibly troubling" during a hearing this afternoon. And he asked a lot of questions, both about the legal issues that this case raises and whether the Trump administration violated his orders when it deported hundreds of Venezuelans last weekend. NPR's Joel Rose was in the courtroom and joins us now. Hi, Joel.
JOEL ROSE, BYLINE: Hey, Ailsa.
CHANG: OK, so today's hearing was just the latest move - right? - in a pretty heated back-and-forth over these deportation flights, yeah?
ROSE: Yeah, lots of conflict this week between the White House and the judge in this case. Judge Boasberg has temporarily blocked the Trump administration from using a law that dates to 1798 called the Alien Enemies Act. And that has prompted some heated rhetoric from the administration. The White House argues the judge has overstepped his authority by inserting himself improperly into foreign policy. President Trump and other Republicans went so far as calling for his impeachment. And that prompted a rebuke from the chief justice of the Supreme Court.
Judge Boasberg is still pushing the administration to explain whether it defied his orders when it allowed deportation flights to continue last weekend. Boasberg said in court today, the government has, quote, "not been (ph) terribly cooperative," unquote, but he did promise to get to the bottom of it.
CHANG: OK, so a lot of tension in the courtroom. What else happened in court today?
ROSE: Yeah, there was some discussion about those deportation flights, but most of the hearing today focused on the law. Both sides made their case about the Alien Enemies Act, which has only been used three times in U.S. history, all when the country was actively at war. The Trump administration argues it should apply here as well because of the threat posed by this Venezuelan gang, Tren de Aragua, which the administration has designated as a foreign terrorist organization. The Trump administration says Tren de Aragua has invaded the country at the behest of the government of Venezuela.
Immigrant advocates dispute that. They say Tren de Aragua is violent and dangerous, but they argue this does not rise to the level of an invasion as defined by Congress in the law because we are not at war. Immigrant advocates also say these deported people did not have adequate due process, were not given any chance to prove in court that they are not gang members.
CHANG: Well, what about Judge Boasberg? Like, what did he say about all of this?
ROSE: Judge Boasberg seemed really focused on this question of due process and whether the alleged gang members have had a meaningful opportunity to present their cases. He called this use of the Alien Enemies Act incredibly troubling, quote, "unprecedented" and agreed with the ACLU lawyer that the way the law is being used is, quote, "a long way from the heartland of the Act."
Boasberg seemed very interested in whether these men had a chance to defend themselves before being sent to a Salvadoran prison, either in court or hypothetically before some other kind of hearing board. At the same time, the judge seemed wary of overstepping his authority on foreign policy, and he did not seem inclined to challenge the Trump administration's assertion about this being an invasion.
CHANG: Interesting. OK, so still a lot of unresolved questions about these deportation flights last weekend. What do we know about the people who were on those planes?
ROSE: Well, we know there were 238 Venezuelans in total, including about 130 that the Trump administration says were deported solely under the Alien Enemies Act as an authority. A growing number of family members and lawyers for those men have come forward to say that they are not gang members. Many do not even have criminal records, according to lawyers and family members, both in court papers and in interviews with NPR. They say the government's allegations are based, in some cases, simply on tattoos that these men have.
The White House says it is confident that all of those who were deported are violent gang members, that these allegations were all carefully vetted. But the administration has not officially released all of their names or very much information at all about what they're accused of doing.
CHANG: That is NPR's Joel Rose. Thank you so much, Joel.
ROSE: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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